Windows 10 Updates - The Great Debate
July 27, 2017
Rex McMillan | Principal Product Manager | Ivanti
Alan Braithwaite | Director of Product Management | Ivanti
Should you be more aggressive with your Windows 10 migration and updates or should you favor a more conservative approach? What are the pros and cons of each approach? If your organization is delaying your migration until you have a better understanding of Microsoft’s latest OS updates, this webinar is for you.
Join us for this LIVE debate, where Alan Braithwaite, Director of Product Management and former Engineering Director at Ivanti, and Rex McMillan, Principal Product Manager at Ivanti, will duel it out and fight for Windows 10 migration and update dominance. No matter who you side with, this debate may make you change your mind about how hard Windows 10 updates need to be.
Adam: Okay, just to get back on track. So we've introduced ourselves, and now we're in the Windows 10 Great Debate, and we're gonna talk about these different things. We have about three or four different questions we're gonna answer, and we'll also be gathering, just as a side note, we'll be gathering your feedback as well as your questions during it. And if we feel like it fits right within the context of the conversation, I'll bring it up, because I'm watching your comments. And...but at the end we also have some time for Q&A as well. So, let's get started with the Great Debate. So the first is, "Adopt or Wait to Migrate?" A good question, because I think Rex, you think that no matter what, we're gonna migrate anyway. So it's just a matter of when, right?
Rex: Adopt, it's time. Might as well get started. The Windows 10 is here, it's been out for two years. It's a known quantity at this point. We know what it is, it's always gonna get changes. It's always gonna be updated. This is very similar to our phones. This is very similar to other types of devices that are out there. Over 50% of the devices have already started testing Windows 10 deployments. We've seen the number of the enterprise editor doing it. Our data starts coming up, so this is nothing really new. Now, the big kicker here is hardware. The new Kaby Lake, it's only supported by officially by Microsoft on Windows 10. So Windows 10's here, it's reality, it's time. We might as well get these migrations rolling. Last thing we wanna be is in that position where we were with XP, where we got down to the time crunch. So, make a plan, start the update, it's time, Windows 10, it's here. That's my take today.
Adam: So I see Alan scribbling down a lot of different questions. I think you're gonna have some comments for him, right?
Rex: Oh yeah.
Adam: While you're doing that, let me just mention one thing. And that is that Ivanti did a survey with dimensional research, and there were over 1000 participants in this survey about Windows 10. And they asked all sorts of different questions. One of the things that came back from that was that Windows 10 adoption is limited, but is quickly accelerating. At least that's what they're seeing. And 10% have Windows 10 in their production environment, but I don't think that was saying that the entire company, all of those companies, 10% of enterprises have some Windows 10. So that wasn't really defined, so if you look again, so next is that they were saying that 77% were saying that they would be fully migrated to Windows 10 within the next two years. And to me that seemed a little aggressive in some way.
Rex: That's what I'm saying, it's here, it's time. The hardware's gonna demand it also.
Adam: See, Alan... Alan, you had a few points that you were gonna make about this.
Alan: Well yeah, those are some great numbers. I have some numbers of my own here. To your point, it's been out for two years, and yes, there has been some adoption. But from a couple of different sources we've pulled from the one on the left, a company that does a lot of consulting for large enterprises. While Windows 10 is being looked at, the roll-out as of late last year was only about 1%. It made inroads of 1% into the enterprise, large enterprise businesses. So that's 1% of all the total end nodes. That's not a lot, that doesn't say, "Hey, we're thrilled about Windows 10, excited to move forward." On the SMB side, Spiceworks, which usually works in that space, they're saying that, you know, just in the last few months Windows 10 has passed Windows XP as the number 2 OS, with a whopping 13% in that category. Or in that size of company. So, you know, yeah, people are recognizing it there. They're not clamoring to it, though, and so that's the reality. [crosstalk]
Adam: I thought XP was dead. Why is it taking that long?
Alan: Exactly. And you know, XP is "unsupported", right? Oh wait, did they hold another security update recently? I don't know, Rex, you...
Rex: Last month there was another security update for XP. You're correct, XP's still getting the security updates. There's ones you can purchase, plus they did the free ones the last two months, two months in a row. So... Well, good points Alan. Windows 10, it's got a lot of adoption in the consumer market. And as you can see by their number of...percentage of nodes, there's a lot of [inaudible 00:05:01].
Man: You're right, consumer...you're right. That's interesting, or it's important to point out consumer market is growing.
Rex: The consumer market is growing. Enterprises are definitely testing it. I think we all recognize in the enterprise that we're going to have to go there. And there's some really valid reasons why we should go there. So Windows 10 has the security improvements. You know, WannaCry came out? And I hear about WannaCry, number one concern first thing is, I got to make sure I can do business. I do a quick search, "WannaCry Windows 10," and the result comes back, "Not impacted." I go research three or four things, I'm not impacted. The security improvements of Windows 10 are really a big deal. So Microsoft has come out, and you know they've got a couple of really bold statements they've made with Windows 10. One, they want a billion devices running Windows 10, so they are going to go full-court press. They're trying to get all of us to migrate to Windows 10. Now, do they just want a billion devices on it, just because, I mean, like, it's a little trophy they get to put there? No. What they've really also said is, "We are working on making sure we have the most secure operating system in the world." And so, if you have the most secure operating system, and you know that, the best thing you can do is get all your consumers there.
So when you go down and you start refueling the architecture and you get into the nitty-gritty of...you know, two years ago was Windows 10 came out, they start showing, "Hey, this is how we re-architected the kernel. This is what we did for process isolation. This is what we've done to make this OS secure." And we've really seen that in the last two years. There haven't been big rampages of Windows 10 being infected with things. Windows 10 is a much more secure OS, so there's a real valid reason. Number two reason, as an enterprise you need to start adopting. Windows 7 end-of-life's 2020. It's coming, it's...I mean, we're in 2018 tomorrow, I think. I mean, I know that it's July or something, but, like, tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and it's gonna be 2018. The world moves fast, so if we're not making plans and we're not starting those migrations, we're gonna be caught. And hardware, Kaby Lake will be the standard OS...or the standard CPU here shortly, and if you're not migrating to Windows 10, what are you doing, stockpiling hardware? You got to figure out something that you're gonna do to run your enterprise. So it's either gonna be Windows 10 or old hardware.
Man: Now, Alan, you can probably admit the security things are important, but the Windows 7 end-of-life in 2020, do you really believe that?
Man: What's the history there?
Alan: Do you guys really believe that? You know, historically looking, Microsoft comes out with these policies of end-of-life, and they generally move. So, I'm not totally convinced that it's going to be 2020 for Windows 7. You know, you wanna be as prepared as possible, I think you do wanna be looking at it. But there's a lot of management overhead that comes with Windows 10, so you have to be fully aware of that. That's something we need to point out, and people need to be prepared for that. Are you gonna be ready to move to Windows 10, and all of the management overhead that comes with that? We'll be talking about that a little bit later.
Adam: So, Alan, you know that Rex...that Rex likes to work on cars and trucks, right?
Alan: That's right.
Adam: Do you think he does it when they're moving down the road, though?
Alan: Well, I wouldn't be surprised. I've been in one of his trucks before. It didn't even have a place for the key to go in. So, I mean, Windows 10 really is like driving a car that's being built or rebuilt while you're driving it, right? It is expanding, there are pieces that might be changing right out from under you, right? Example of that the other day, I like to get into the OS and change some things up. You know, even just the simple things like changing my screensaver and the amount of time that my machine goes...you know, before it goes to sleep or all that. Those things keep...I have to dig around and try to find where those are at.
And you know me, I've been on computers for years, I can handle that pretty easily, I can find that. But for other people who get used to...most users, who may be not highly technical and they get used to a certain way of doing things, and this OS is changing out from under them at a cadence unprecedented. You know, we're talking every six months you're getting updates potentially, and that could be very confusing for the customer.
Adam: When the user experience is changing, the other things are changing too, right, Rex?
Alan: Okay, you got me. I had to find...I was signing in Windows 10 the other day, and of course I'm on Insider Previews, so sometimes even the documentation's a little light there. And one of the settings had moved, and I didn't find it. So yes, the car's changing as we drive it, you know, but there's some reasons for that. So in the world we keep talking about how, you know, we've got [inaudible 00:10:31], we've got design build in the construction industry. We've recognized it's important to take things in bite-sized pieces. So bite-sized pieces are critical, we scale that down and we make these changes small enough that we can work through them. And as IT, sometimes we wait a long time and then the change's so big and so hard that we can't do it. So Windows 10 is trying to be a forcing function to make us keep ourselves keep up to date.
Man: So it doesn't just impact the users, it impacts IT as well?
Man: Their usability or their user experience too, right?
Alan: That's correct.
Man: Okay. So, got to chalk one up to you, Alan, on that one. You better stay up to date if you're on Windows 10, and keep with the flow or you're gonna have a lot of different things wrong. So...
Man: Very good.
Man: So, let's just talk about this on the...let's talk about which side of the fence you're on. So you've brought up a few different reasons to go with Windows 10. I've seen articles where there's a lot more reasons that those, but I think you've boiled them down to the really three important ones, right? Security, and there's gonna be an end-of-life, and the hardware. So those things are just all forcing functions in many ways, right? And then on the productivity side, you've touched a little bit on the impact it's gonna have. So where do you fall? Anything thing else about...that you wanna make a good argument about those things, one way or another?
Man: I'll go that you know we...we wanna make sure the most valuable resource in the company always has his tools to be with it. There's the cautious way, we can be ultra cautious and say, "Hey, we're not making new changes, our users can't keep up." But the majority of our users have machines at home, they're consumers. And if they're consumers, they're on Windows 10, and they're riding that train. And so as enterprises, some of our training cost is gonna go away because they're keeping up on that at home. So, we can talk about user productivity and find a limit risk. But really, the question is, is security staying up to date and being able to drive those differentiations? Is that what you need to make sure your business is ready?
Man: Right, and I think that that's...the whole crowdsourcing of testing is what Microsoft's doing, to some extent. And not too bad of an idea, doing it on the consumer level, you're typically not going to be running anything as a consumer that is critical. However, you get to the next level into your business side, and...which, you know, what company wants their people to run into the issues first because someone else doesn't happen to run their particular piece of hardware or the software that they have? So it's a concern, the pace of Windows 10, what they're planning to...how they're planning to update it. A little bit of concern on the productivity for the end user, and them being able to stay productive while this operating system is changing underneath them on such a rapid pace. And we'll talk about what that pace looks like.
Okay. So let's say that, let's say that we jump in. So I don't know who really won that round, I don't know, I'm a little bit more with Alan on that one.
Alan: It is coming, there's no question, but...
Man: You know it's coming and you're much more aggressive with it, because you've been working on it constantly. So, anyway, we'll go with the fact that we got to jump in. So now what? How do we get there? So Alan, there are some questions, even if you've made that commitment to jump, what are the questions you're gonna have to look at to be able to do this?
Alan: Yeah. So this is what you need to ask yourself, we're diving in now, "Which branch?" So everyone knows there's multiple branches in Windows 10. You have your consumer branch, or excuse me, current branch, also current consumer branch, "CB." You have your current branch for business, "CBB." You have your LTSB branch, long term servicing branch. But then you also have your insider, right? And so, which branch are you gonna run in your organization? Obviously not insider for everyone, but there are pros and cons to some of these other branches, and when you use them, and when you update them. So that's something that everyone needs to study and figure that out. Also, how often are you going to update? Microsoft has set their cadence, they've kind of been changing it.
I expect it'll probably change some more, you got to give them credit for pushing the envelope. But I fully expect they're gonna back off in some of the things. They have already. So that's probably a good thing. But again, the conversation on productivity, this could really...you know, here's our IT guy on the right, and he's trying to figure out how all of this is going to work, and how he's gonna keep everybody updated on Windows 10. It could be potentially a drain on productivity and resources, your IT department always trying to answer people's questions to keep them updated on Windows 10. That's my concern.
Man: Yeah. So, Alan, this isn't my favorite slide, it's not very visual. But it really comes straight from Microsoft, right?
Rex: How much did they pay you off to let you put this slide in? I know you love charts like this, Adam.
Adam: Pretty lame. But it does prove a point, so what is the point you're trying to make here, Alan?
Alan: Well, it's been out for two years, right? And this is the number of branches we have already. Now, given some of these are duplicate branches, but at the same time they're also a branch with a purpose. So you have "current branch," "current branch for business long-term servicing" like we mentioned. Well, okay, in two years we have this many branches. All right, we can kind of handle that a little bit, I guess. But then what? Well, they've already announced end-of-life for a couple of these branches. Which means, end-of-life means no more security updates. And, you know, we saw previously from the charts and the statistics that there's not a lot of people enterprise-wide that have moved to it. Although, again, that was a little bit later last year. More people moved to it. So, not too many have had to worry about moving to the next version, but as you're talking about your entire enterprise moving to it and realizing the pace, you know, this is a big deal.
So, think about it. Windows 7, the last real enterprise OS...yes, Windows 8 came out before that, but not much adoption Windows 8. So we're not gonna count that one. Windows 7 is gonna have about nine years of life from the time it came out to the time it's end of support, reaches end of support. So that has allowed IT to focus on other things besides just updating their endpoints to the latest OS. And yes, we know there's patching, but that's different than actually getting new features and things out there. Versus Windows 10, which releases every six months. And Microsoft has changed on this one, by the way. At first it was going to release every three times a year, every four months. They've changed it to every six months, but from the time that the original current branch comes out, which they're referring now to as the "Pilot Branch," from the time that comes out to the time it actually will be closed and end of support is a year and a half, but reality is you have about a year.
Man: You have about 12 months. So what, they've introduced in the new branch, the Pilot Branch. What is that?
Alan: Consumer Branch, Pilot Branch. If you're in enterprise it's a great product, and if you're a consumer, well, you just get to run the branch that they do.
Man: You are on Windows 10, you are our Windows pilot program.
Alan: You know, this is gonna be a big change in the world. One of the things that's always been in the past, is that enterprises did a great job of keeping themselves patched and up to date and consumers didn't. And so, when you were an attacker, it was easy to attack and take over consumer devices, because they weren't patched and up to date. This is a flipping paradigm where the consumers are going to be on the latest and greatest and have the most security updates. And as enterprises, if we don't keep up to date, we're gonna be more vulnerable than the consumer side. So this is really interesting switch. This chart's really interesting, because it does show...you make some really solid points here.
First off, you know, the OS is valid for 12 months. Now they've given us a 60-day grace period, which was a change. Microsoft is, you know, trying to adapt this to help us really do this. But, you know, we were taking to some Microsoft guys the other day, and we were discussing cadence. And one of their principal product program managers is like, "Our customers are demanding we change." And I was like, "Really?" And they're like, "Yeah, think about it. We did a request for a feature, and you tell me I can't get it implemented out in enterprises for eight years. How do we become responsive? How do we help these guys move and change?" You know, we've got this new cool technology called Hololens. We wanna get that out, we wanna help enterprises really be able to innovate and change their business. To support all of this, we've got to get so that people can stay current on OSes, innovate and change IT and move forward. Take these things in bite-sized pieces so that we can go. None of us want to go back and develop software in a waterfall methodology where we define it all out and we hand to engineer it, and in a year they come back. Nobody builds a road anymore. We don't have the civil engineers and go out and define the road exactly.
We say, "Hey, we're gonna build the road and it's gonna be six lanes." And then we can contract some guys and design build, and they go strip the ground off. And then we can soil guys come out and say, "Okay, based on what we've found, we're here we know we design that day. Next day we change, and we modify, we take it in these bite-sized pieces." We've been able to change how fast we build roads, how fast we build software, and we've got to change how we do IT by taking the changes in very small, consumable components.
Man: So everybody's agile is what you're saying.
Alan: If we're not agile, we're gonna fall behind.
Man: So how does that apply to the branch scenario?
Man: Yeah, really. There's a lot of different branches, you're saying, and now we, as Alan pointed out, there were a lot of different branches. How do we keep them all?
Man: They all have purposes. So...you know, in the past it was all about, "We get everybody, we put them on one branch, and that's that." You know what, that's not really gonna work. I was at a seminar and the guy stood up and he started talking and he said, "Lab testing is dead." And I went, "I don't know why I'm here, this guy's obviously been crazy. He has no clue what it takes." And then he just started in and he says, "Look, guys, as IT, if you continue to think we're gonna take everything, put it through the lab, put six months of testing in it and know what to do with it, you're not gonna be able to keep up."
So...first off, I put him as a crazy, I wrote myself a few notes that the guy was, you know, there. But over time, I can now see what he was talking about. So the reality is, is that we've got to be able to become more agile. So Microsoft has changed their OS in a way that, as IT departments and as people, we can help. So first off, there's three branches that we want to talk about. There's Insider, there's Current Branch, and Current Branch for Business.
So Insider Preview, this is the bleeding edge guys. There's somebody out there in your enterprise who, for the glory of being able to run Insider Preview, will take that guy and he will deal with the monthly and bi-monthly updates. And he will run all of the applications. Now, Microsoft recommends you don't run Insider Preview in production mode, that's their way of saying, "Hey, we know it could go bad." And this is where you do your testing. So do a bunch of testing here. This is where you can know you have four to six months of every operating system while it's being built you can run it and test it. You know right up front during Insider Preview you can download that guy, and you can know, "Hey, is the next branch working well?" The next branch is Current Branch. Now, Alan correctly referred to it as Pilot Branch for enterprises. It's a great place we can come in and pilot. If we can put our application owners or our IT staff on Current Branch, we should know we have six months of Current Branch before it becomes Current Branch for Business.
So we can put 1, 2, 5% of our enterprise on Current Branch. We'll know every application that has an issue, we'll be able to solve those issues, and we're ready to roll the enterprise onto it. So instead of saying, "Hey, here's the new OS," we're gonna go test it for months in the lab, crowdsourcing. We do some lab testing, we run through this Insider Previews, we run Current Branch on the right people. And we're ready when Current Branch for Business comes out, we're ready to roll.
We can drop our enterprise on it. We know which applications work, don't work, what the challenges are, and we're ready to go. So this is something that we really never had with Windows 7, Windows 8. We never had this ability to have these different branches and actually be able to test and be ready to become agile as how we consume an operating system.
Adam: So what's the difference between Current Branch and Current Branch for Business? What happens...between that? Is it just bug fixes and....
Man: So Current Branch comes out, and then Microsoft does their, basically, their monthly updates. And Current Branch for Business is the Current Branch plus the three sets of service updates. It's nothing more than that. It's bugs that...it's Current Branch plus three sets of updates, really when you take it as one. So they will release Current Branch plus this bug fix, this service pack, and they will call that Current Branch for Business. And then they'll release you a slipstream version, so it's one install. Nice and clean for you to manage. So soon as you get that third update, you pretty much know that's Current Branch for Business.
Man: So you mentioned here on Current Branch for Business and annual upgrade. Now, Current Branch for Business is also on a six month case just like the other. So is that your recommendation, or what do you mean by the annual?
Man: Yeah, so if you're on Current Branch for Business, you have 12 months of support, plus the 60-day grace period. Now we don't want to always, you know, upgrade users too often, so annually upgrading the machine is one of those things that kinda makes sense. So saying, "Hey, you know what? We're gonna keep you on this, and we're gonna upgrade annually." Now, you make a good point, every six months there is new Current Branch for Business. The tricky part here...I know where you're going, I can see where you're gonna drive me, so I might as well just go there. So if I pick Current Branch for Business 1607 as my standard, and today is 1707. 1707, we know there's about one about to drop, and I'm building new machines, should I be 1607 on them or should I be putting 1703 on them? If I'm putting 1607, that means I'm gonna have to upgrade them in the next two and a half months.
I don't have a lot of choices or time when we can do that. If I put 1703 on them, they have 9 to 10 months before I have to upgrade them. So today it would be wise to be installing 1703. So yes, I would end up with machines, the new machines coming in, being on 1703 while my machines when I did my last group would be on 1607. So yes, it could get a little bit more tricky in the fact of how many branches it could have.
Man: So you'd have to plan your upgrades properly and match theirs.
Man: So is this all the branches? There's one missing, right?
Man: There is one missing. So I just put this slide in here. I tried to prep, because I knew you were gonna say...I knew you were just gonna bring up something hard. You know, we have that conversation about the specialty devices. So there's specialty devices, you know, I had to get a cat scan to prove to my wife there's actually...like, I have a heart and stuff like that. That was a hard sell. So the devices that run those have to be certified, they have to be proven that the results out of those are on an operating system, are tested, and we can't be changing those a lot.
So to that point, we have the Long-Term Sustaining Branch. Windows 10 has Long-Term Sustaining Branch, you might call it Windows as we know it. It's got a 5-7 year lifespan, it's security fixes during that entire time. And here's a couple pictures of Enterprise versus Long-Term Sustaining Branch. So you can see the Long-Term Sustaining Branch does not have Cortana, it does not have Store, it does not have Edge. It doesn't have any of the features that are continually being updated to drive some of the innovative components.
Man: So what would be an example here of Ivanti, where...you know, you mentioned a medical thing, but just out of business do you see...
Man: You know, most of us here, like, at Ivanti, we probably really don't have anybody that needs to run Long-Term Sustaining Branch. We don't have manufacturing devices. Maybe our build machines, so our servers that do our sever builds, I would suspect that they'd be Long-Term Sustaining Branch. They're very solid, we always want the builds to look the same, we don't change our build systems very often. We wanna keep those very static. So here we probably have build systems, hospitals have it, manufacturing has it.
Man: Retail, they have some places where they need it. Actually, retail's one that you could argue you want it, but I'll make the counterargument, "Oh, well, this is a great..."
Man: Let's hear the counterargument.
Man: Yeah, really.
Man: You got to be secure. You can't, you cannot continue to process credit cards.
Man: They are providing security updates for the service agreement.
Man: Yep. But the models and the...
Man: It's not fast enough.
Man: It's not fast enough. You end up behind, so we have to find ways to build processing that we can keep right up to date. We don't want to be one of those places where we've said, "Gosh, you know, we didn't take that, and now we found out that it was vulnerable to a zero-day vulnerability." A zero-day vulnerability doesn't mean that vulnerability's just...just barely came out. It means we just barely got notified about it. We don't know how long people have been taking advantage of that.
Man: See, now, I would argue that there are more people in your environment that could use the LTSB. Because if you look at the difference between these two slides, some of that stuff on the left is kinda distracting. I don't need my people who are there entering an order entry, or, you know, my financier, anybody that needs to stay focused on their job to be looking at colorful little tiles and clicking on them and wondering what that is. So there's actually a nice way to be concise, and give them exactly what they need and only what they need, and put them to pasture, so to speak. That doesn't sound very good, although I thought you might understand what I meant by that.
Man: I probably do.
Man: So to let them just use what they have and stay that way for awhile. You know, that would be my argument of where you potentially could use LTSB.
Man: Very good. But the thing about LTSB, you might have a few devices that you're doing it, but how easy is it to get?
Man: So yeah. [crosstalk]. LTSB sounds like a great solution to me, so how easy is Microsoft making it to get LTSB Branch?
Man: LTSB is not available generally to everyone. You do have to be on enterprise-type agreements. There is a lot of controls around it. Microsoft is attempting to not have all of us just go put our enterprises on LTSB. So there are significant purchasing challenges around buying LTSB, of what agreements you have to have with Microsoft to be able to put LTSB on. So yes, LTSB has its place, Microsoft is attempting to help us limit that and make sure we don't do it. You know, I believe that if we have this conversation three years from now when we're debating, we're gonna be discussing not six month intervals, but whether or not the OS is gonna be updated monthly.
Man: Wow, okay. So everybody write that down.
Man: Yeah, please take a note of that one.
Man: We just know that the peripherals are changing the way we learn, how fast we can build new devices. Microsoft wants to be, and they are striving to make sure that they're enablers of innovation, not something that holds us back. So we'll see that they are really...they're out talking to their customers who are people that build new hardware. They're people who sell...it's us as enterprises. And they wanna make sure that they're giving us that operating system that can do that. So we're all learning from each other, there's mobile devices, there's Mac, there's all kinds of places out there. Trying to find ways to make sure that we can be more agile and adapt faster.
Man: So, now is a good time to start taking some of those key learnings.
Man: Hey, I'm a Windows user. I have a PC, a Windows user. But I haven't quite consumed the Kool-Aid like Rex has.
Man: We're gonna adapt, we're gonna learn.
Adam: Well, with that, that brings us to kinda which side of the fence you're on, and who's gonna flinch first? Enterprises, are they going to adapt? Or is Microsoft gonna adapt to what the enterprises are? So any arguments on one side or the other? Any final points you wanna...
Man: Rex has made it clear that he believes that there's gonna be this push where it's gonna get shorter and shorter, and enterprises will adapt. I absolutely believe that Microsoft will push to go shorter to shorter, but...they won't be able to get to that point where it's monthly update anytime real soon.
Alan: I can see your points. Definitely there's gonna be some give and take.
Adam: Yeah, I think there will be on both sides, but that's the nice thing about free enterprise, right? All right, let's jump to the next topic. So, yes, you're gonna migrate, we've answered some of those questions hopefully that are still nagging. And now we're talking about migrations. Are they difficult? Or are they easy? Can we make them easier? Is Microsoft making them easier? All those questions, I think Rex, you wanted to take this topic first and jump to it. So...
Rex: Migrations are not easy, but they're a lot easier than they've ever been. So the...Microsoft actually made themselves a case study. They've published the entire case study about everything from 2009 when they went to Windows 7, up to their migration to Windows 10. So it's a current case study they've published out there. If you wanna go research it, you can find the Microsoft Migration Case Study. So it's an interesting thing that they've had to publish. I think it would have been fun to watch the conversation as they debated on which statistics they've had to show to people. So as here you can see, for Windows 7 to get 80% of their full-time employees it took them a year. Now, they also list in there, you know, some consults and amount of hours, and you can see the complexity that they said in their user experience.
Their help desk setup, you can see that that was quite a lot. So they have those little charts that they're showing. Windows 8, eight months, not a lot of change. Now, Windows 8.1, I would say that was just like putting a service pack on. So it took them three months to put a service pack on. 8.1 felt like a service pack. 8.1 update they got down to five weeks, so that's better. They were able to put a service pack on in five weeks. Windows 10 is where it becomes interesting. They did 85% of their full-time employees in four weeks. So, as a business is making the operating system, Microsoft is focused on the update. How fast can we do it? How easy can we do it? How do we make it so it rolls back if there's challenges? How do we make sure that we don't lose users' profiles and data?
So Microsoft has put a lot of effort into this, and we can see from here that they've made a lot of headway. So Alan, you've made a few...we've already discussed a few of these things. These migrations are no small task, right?
Man: So we've touched on some things about user downtime, and branches, and even the user experience. But some of the things about the image, or cumulative updates, do you wanna add more color to that?
Alan: Sure. You know, there's different ways to update. I can see direct that moving Windows 10 has been easier than some of the other updates that they've done. Definitely moving from XP to Windows 7 was more challenging. Microsoft has made it easier, I've done an update myself. Definitely was easier. However, there are things you have to watch out for for your typical end-user. I don't consider myself a typical end-user, I am much more qualified to know where all my data is, what all my applications are before and after, etc. But those are the things that you need to make sure that you're aware of. What applications they have, what peripherals are currently installed on it, what drivers you need to be aware of, what data they have and where it's located, and ensuring that that gets moved and migrated and comes across exactly the way that you want it.
So, there's a lot of planning to come into play. And depending on whether you're going to do a full-image update with your corporate image, because, you know, most IT shops want to be able to have an image that they're familiar with, it's locked down with the security settings that they need. It has the applications that are most important to the business or to the majority of the people that they have. And so, you know, what we have found is, you know, half or more of the organizations are still going to be doing imaging. And then there is a big chunk that will do in-place and probably a mix in both. So you got to be aware of what's in front of you when you're upgrading.
Man: Those updates are pretty big, right?
Man: And there, the fish can go, right?
Alan: Absolutely, we're ready to go now.
Adam: Jumps into the new environment. So Rex, you had seven steps to get to Windows 10. I think Alan agreed with quite a few of these, but maybe he might jump in and...
Rex: Yep, and so I agree with Alan. You know, the critical part here is that we really take care of our users. So migrating to Windows 10, you know, they've done a lot of work there, they've made it a lot simpler. But you know, I think somebody pointed out the other day, you know, if we say, "1% fails," that sounds really good a lot of times. Unless you're that one guy, and then you had 100% failure. So 100% failure's really bad when you're that guy. You know, unemployment's only 4%, unless you're the guy that's unemployed, then you're 100% unemployed and not making any money. And the same with our users, if we have a failure, even if it's just 1%, that can have significant impact on your user's productivity. Could be one of our key players who could really impact a quarter, etc. So we need to make sure that we put into play the right processes and the right steps for migration. First off, we got to make sure we're protecting user data. Now, there's a lot of ways to go about this, there's lots of tools to pull off user data protection. But we got to make sure that the user experience maintains consistent enough that there's not a problem.
Man: Don't they wanna improve the UX? We already talked about how they switch and change it, though.
Rex: There's switches and changes and they're deep level, but at a high level we wanna make sure that the icons that the user clicks on every day that are on his desktop, that they're still there. We wanna make sure that when I log into my box, it feels like my box, and my experience is consistent enough that I can move forward. We wanna make sure that we can do this at the right times, we don't wanna go do it, you know...right in the middle of a presentation's probably not a good time to do a system upgrade. We wanna make sure that we put the right controls in place that the user experience is correct. Now, whenever we migrate is a good time to standardize, secure, make sure that we're putting the things out. So as IT if we say, "Hey, we're gonna put controls around these migrations, and we're gonna choose when to upgrade, we're gonna give the user some input in this," we can actually come out being a lot more standardized and secure. No project's any good if we can't monitor it and report on it and know how we're doing.
Now, the biggest part for Windows 10 for me is that whatever we build this migration process to look like, it's got to be reusable. Because every 12 months, we're gonna use it on every device. So reusable projects are the most important part. Testing and retesting our applications, we just got to make sure that that's part of our process. We don't wanna spend a ton of time in the lab, let's get that thing to the right people, right edge, and make sure that we can move forward. So Windows migrations, lots of options here, lots of capabilities. And... as we talk about migrations, you know, this is some of those areas where we focus for a long time. We've had the capability to work with the OS, the drivers, the applications. You know, Windows 10, they say it's the last OS that ever changed, and I was all excited because that means drivers are all gonna be compatible, right? Well, the reality is is nothing's changed. Each OS has new driver capability. Instead of using the first two octets of the build number, we're just using the third octet now.
We still have the same challenges around drivers and which OSes and which hardware they support. So these things are still critical, you still got to use the right tools to manage through those. With the Absence [SP] acquisition, we now have the ability to also manage files and profiles. In the slide you've given us here, Adam, you can see how we've got service management to put workflow around, the client management tools, the workspace management profiles and files, and even can drive this on into asset management.
Man: [inaudible 00:42:50] zero touch model where...the service management where the request comes in, and then the whole thing is done through some kind of vendor or some kind of partner...
Rex: That's correct.
Man: It comes in, it goes to the person, and...
Rex: We've got to go see a lot of really fun migrations. Our pro services team have taken our tools and done a bunch of migrations. I've seen them building some Windows 10 migration...products or processes for customers, and there's some lot of really fun things they can do. Whether it be user initiated, iTicket initiated, there's a lot of ways they can do allow for fully automated capability. So yes, migrations are coming, building a reusable process with the right tools is critical for us.
Man: So Rex...like you said, Alan, he's been drinking a lot of Kool-Aid.
Alan: Yes. His tongue's red.
Man: And he's been living inside that bubble, that insider bubble. So, you wanna give us some last pieces of advice or "gotchas" or something like that?
Rex: Alan basically said that if we came to this I had to tell you at least some of the fun things that have occurred over the past two years of living on Insider Preview.
Man: Because you've installed your machine how many times? Like 50 plus?
Rex: I've done 50 plus...my updates on Windows 10. So I've been on Insider Preview since before Windows 10 came out. So I've got two years and a couple months. Two years and four months, I think it is right now. I was being on Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast Ring, and pretty much my production box runs on that. So I've had to do a few things to make sure I'm safe, okay? But now I've got it, so I think I now how to be safe. Now what's really got me? Well, I've had twice where I've had to...once I've had to roll back the update, and once when I had to run it manually because it got stuck. So, a couple times there. So Microsoft added some new features that were really fun. One is active hours. So active hours allows you to say, "My machine, my business day is from..." A 12-hour window. I get to choose what that 12-hour window is.
Man: Only 12 hours? Wow.
Rex: They want half the day.
Man: That's an improvement for you.
Rex: Yeah, yeah, so 12 hours, I get to set my active hours to 12 hours, and inside that active hours, Microsoft doesn't bug me. I never get a prompt. I think we were working the other night, Alan, and at like seven oh something...
Alan: Yeah, right at 7:00, 7:01, boom, ready to update.
Rex: Right, so active hours, we don't get prompted during our active hours. Outside our active hours we do. So Microsoft didn't allow me to put 18 hours, because they're like, "Hey, we still want your machine to be on one of these times when this does it." So active hours says push everything outside of my business hours. So, time zones. I, being slothful or something, I rarely set my time zone in the past to when I travel. So I'd travel and my phone would update [inaudible 00:46:08], and I'd leave my laptop on Mountain Time, and I didn't care. It was fine, Outlook seemed to have figured it out, my phone was giving me alerts, and life was good. Until I didn't understand about Active Hours and not being able to cancel. So I deferred an update for a few times, and I deferred and I deferred, and I got to Europe and it was noon in Europe in front of a customer presenting. And Windows 10 popped up and said, "Hey, you're out of deferrals, we're going to update you." Now, if I had set my time zone, my active hours would have protected me, and it wouldn't been right in the middle of my presentation.
But Windows 10 has the ability to do forced upgrades, no cancel, after I've deferred for a certain number of times. Now, I should have been protected with my Active Hours, but I didn't set my time zone. So based on that, I got to have a machine with a no cancel full upgrade sitting in front of a customer. Not, maybe, what you'd want to do when you're talking about Windows 10. So that's a reality. Windows 10 also has the patch or be vulnerable problem. The patches are cumulative, and we have seen numerous instances of where the cumulative patches have hardware that they break, don't support, and the only choice with Windows 10 now is patch or be vulnerable. In the past, we may install most of the patches, we may leave one month with patch out that causes a little issue. That's not a choice anymore with Windows 10, they have patch or be vulnerable. So we have to make sure that we're using these Insider Previews, we're using all the tools we can to make sure that we move forward.
Adam: Right, and do we have to be forced to use Microsoft's patching time limits itself, or are there alternatives?
Rex: Absolutely are alternatives, you can go in and disable all of the Microsoft patching and you can still control the patching through third-party patching tools such as the patch tools that are integrated from Ivanti. So absolutely you can still have control of that patching. Now, this is the last one, I knew that you were gonna make me bring this up, the Windows 10 train that we've all jumped on. There's a few people that jumped on this train, and they got all happy and they're like, "Hey, yeah, we're all good!" And Microsoft just announced that that hardware that's been running Windows 10 is no longer gonna be supported with Windows 10. So, I don't know how these issues are gonna shake out in the future. That's a very current issue where Microsoft has just come out and said, "Yeah, I know you had these OSes on Windows 10, you put it on this creator's update and sorry we're not gonna support it in the next version. Too bad, anybody with this chipset's no longer gonna be supported on Windows 10." So there's a lot items here to still sort out around some of these items. These are things to make sure that you're subscribed to the right channels and you're monitoring. But Windows 10 is a very very solid operating system.
Adam: Very good. [inaudible 00:49:17] leaving a little bit of time for question and answer. And we didn't give you a chance to debate with Rex on that, but if any of you would like to submit some questions through the chat, I sent something out. We have been having a few issues with the chat where somebody or something has hacked into and started spamming. So if I see some valid questions come up here, that would be good, because we had this happen on another webinar as well. Anyway, so, any questions? And maybe you guys might think of a question that you had recently about Windows 10, while we're waiting for anything to come through. So go ahead and submit any questions through the chat, we'll see what comes up. Any questions that have come up about Windows 10 to you guys lately?
Man: Trying to think what we haven't covered for Windows 10...
Man: I'd say the only think we haven't covered is we, you know, as Ivanti and with the patching tools we have, we have constant communication. We have a bi-weekly meeting with the Microsoft patch team, discussing how they're moving forward with patching. We're doing our best to represent you guys as enterprises of what your challenges are, what controls you need, what your machine types look like. So we've been sharing those insights with Microsoft going back and forth, hoping to help them continue to model their patch tools to something that helps you in the enterprise. So we have those conversations, but if you have a chance, make sure that you're expressing those to Microsoft as well.
Adam: We do have a valid question here, and that is, "How does VDI fit into this? We prefer thick, persistent DMs rather than clones, etc. How does that fit into the whole Windows 10 discussion?"
Man: We've heard...well, at least one of our customers was talking about moving...this is an opportunity to move to VDI. They've been investigating it for a while, and they just thought, "Hey, moving to Windows 10 with its rapid updates seems like a reason to move to VDI." Because if they get to a point where they don't like the update that has come through, or it causes problems or issue with the latest version of Windows 10, in a VDI environment it's easier to reset the base image, or even the number of images that you have. I know that they're going persistent VMs, but you know, some of the base to it, you can revert those back. Even the persistent, you can snapshot and revert back and prevent the issues that you would have had otherwise. So VDI is potentially a...or this is an opportunity potentially to look into VDI. Another reason why VDI might become a solution for you with the cadence that Windows 10 is on.
Man: And with the power by Absence Technologies we have we can help manage a lot of that too, as well as the personalization that goes into that.
Man: Exactly right, the personalization, being able to have that regardless of whether you're on virtual or physical, or regardless of which session you spin up on a virtual environment. Especially in non-persistent, it's beneficial with this user personalization following you around no matter where you log in.
Man: So here's another question, "How would you best upgrade Win 10 from one build to another when you have a large virtual population who rarely connect to the company network connection thing?"
Rex: So the great part about the Windows 10 updates is as long as you put in place something to protect their data and their profile, the number one preferred methodology of doing the update from Microsoft is to do over the top installs. So all you have to do is get that setup.xe downloaded, it's one package, and execute it. We have content for it, so you can do it just as a patch. So it doesn't matter if they're at home, etc. You can put it in their portal and have them click on it at a time that's convenient for them. Maybe not the day before a big demonstration.
Man: Still sensitive, huh?
Rex: Just still a little sensitive over here, okay? But you can put that control. So you can do it just as patch content, install it as a patch. Give the user the ability to kick it off, put in some definitions. In 2017.1, we've enhanced portal manager to give you the ability to put screenshots, the additional descriptions. You can go in and give them the option as well as show them the things that will happen. Tell them the estimated download time and estimated install times. So, lots of capabilities around even doing it user-driven.
Adam: Okay, last question because we're at the top of the hour. We started a minute or two late. But in Absence, or newly acquired Res [SP], help with migrations. And we head back on that slide where we showed the steps, go back just a few slides. That that area where it says, "User workspace management," really fits into that space with Absence and some of the technologies with Res as well. So yes, if you want to put together a full-fledged migration from one to the other, where everything gets there including the profile and the files and everything else that are attached to the user, then definitely using Absence, powered by Absence Technologies and powered by Res Technologies within the Ivanti portfolio works very well with the unified endpoint management stuff, the endpoint manager product that we have with Ivanti, so...very good. All right, well, any other questions that you have, you can direct to me. My name is Adam Smith, my email address is [email protected] And any comments that you have about this webinar, or other ideas that you have about webinars that we could provide for you, please also send them my way at [email protected] Also listed here on the "Thank you," you'll notice a link to the "Migrate my users to Windows 10," that is the solutions page where we keep updated information about what we can do for Windows 10. And with that, we wanna bid you adieu and say thank you for the time you've spent with us, and hopefully this has been helpful to you. So goodbye.